Comments on: Green and Greenwashing at PCBC 2009 http://greenbuildingelements.com/2009/06/19/green-and-greenwashing-at-pcbc-2009/ Reporting on Sustainably Built Environments from Bricks to Cities Fri, 03 Feb 2012 01:57:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Matt http://greenbuildingelements.com/2009/06/19/green-and-greenwashing-at-pcbc-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-41024 Matt Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:21:39 +0000 http://greenbuildingelements.com/?p=1165#comment-41024 They lied to you, but Icynene is good at that. According to the International Code Council (ICC) Evaluation Service division LD-R-50 is ONLY 8% BIOBASED CONTENT. You can check it out yourself by going to http://saveprogram.icc-es.org/reports/index.shtml. They lied to you, but Icynene is good at that. According to the International Code Council (ICC) Evaluation Service division LD-R-50 is ONLY 8% BIOBASED CONTENT. You can check it out yourself by going to http://saveprogram.icc-es.org/reports/index.shtml.

]]> By: Matt http://greenbuildingelements.com/2009/06/19/green-and-greenwashing-at-pcbc-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-99714 Matt Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:21:00 +0000 http://greenbuildingelements.com/?p=1165#comment-99714 They lied to you, but Icynene is good at that. According to the International Code Council (ICC) Evaluation Service division LD-R-50 is ONLY 8% BIOBASED CONTENT. You can check it out yourself by going to http://saveprogram.icc-es.org/reports/index.shtml. They lied to you, but Icynene is good at that. According to the International Code Council (ICC) Evaluation Service division LD-R-50 is ONLY 8% BIOBASED CONTENT. You can check it out yourself by going to http://saveprogram.icc-es.org/reports/index.shtml.

]]> By: The Author http://greenbuildingelements.com/2009/06/19/green-and-greenwashing-at-pcbc-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-40811 The Author Sun, 21 Jun 2009 14:30:56 +0000 http://greenbuildingelements.com/?p=1165#comment-40811 Yeah SFI is a joke. I had it out with those guys at Greenbuild in CHicago a couple of years ago. None of their answers made much sense and it's fairly transparent when it comes to their actual motives for wanting inclusion in LEED and acceptance as a legitimate 3rd party certification. That's like oil companies creating an 'independent 3rd party' to certify fuel-efficiency. Yeah SFI is a joke. I had it out with those guys at Greenbuild in CHicago a couple of years ago. None of their answers made much sense and it’s fairly transparent when it comes to their actual motives for wanting inclusion in LEED and acceptance as a legitimate 3rd party certification. That’s like oil companies creating an ‘independent 3rd party’ to certify fuel-efficiency.

]]> By: The Author http://greenbuildingelements.com/2009/06/19/green-and-greenwashing-at-pcbc-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-99713 The Author Sun, 21 Jun 2009 14:30:00 +0000 http://greenbuildingelements.com/?p=1165#comment-99713 Yeah SFI is a joke. I had it out with those guys at Greenbuild in CHicago a couple of years ago. None of their answers made much sense and it's fairly transparent when it comes to their actual motives for wanting inclusion in LEED and acceptance as a legitimate 3rd party certification. That's like oil companies creating an 'independent 3rd party' to certify fuel-efficiency. Yeah SFI is a joke. I had it out with those guys at Greenbuild in CHicago a couple of years ago. None of their answers made much sense and it’s fairly transparent when it comes to their actual motives for wanting inclusion in LEED and acceptance as a legitimate 3rd party certification. That’s like oil companies creating an ‘independent 3rd party’ to certify fuel-efficiency.

]]> By: Luke http://greenbuildingelements.com/2009/06/19/green-and-greenwashing-at-pcbc-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-40540 Luke Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:03:39 +0000 http://greenbuildingelements.com/?p=1165#comment-40540 Keith, Interesting stuff, especially since I couldn't make it to PCBC this year... Recycled content in foam insulation is something I've been thinking about lately, and it occurs to me that maybe the recycled, or 'natural' content in this case is possibly missing the boat. My understanding of chemistry of these foams is this: one part diisocyanurate (simple, straight up) to one part of some polyol mixture (heterogeneous-- where the Castor oil fits in). In order to not mess up the polymer chemistry too much, you can't add too much low-processed plant based material as a percentage of content, otherwise your foam won't foam so good. So, you've either got to do some energy intensive polyol chain extension, or just go with a more readily available long-chain polyol source, crude oil. My fear is that the processing and chemistry inputs for improving the Castor polyols enough to meet specifications for higher concentrations will be more energy and material intensive than just deriving it from oil, as it currently stands. Of course, I'm all for (r)evolutions in polyurethane chemistry that will allow for higher plant based content, but one also has to make sure the product quality actually exceeds that of conventional petrochemical based foams. Really, I am merely opining that recycled or natural content branding and slogans don't always do it for me anymore. In some products, it's quite appropriate, in others, it's a more minor issue. Insulation, in my view, is one of the latter. I need a more comprehensive life-cycle inventory of the various options, side-by-side in order to be a believer (Of course, I'm not holding my breath) :) Keith,
Interesting stuff, especially since I couldn’t make it to PCBC this year…
Recycled content in foam insulation is something I’ve been thinking about lately, and it occurs to me that maybe the recycled, or ‘natural’ content in this case is possibly missing the boat.
My understanding of chemistry of these foams is this: one part diisocyanurate (simple, straight up) to one part of some polyol mixture (heterogeneous– where the Castor oil fits in). In order to not mess up the polymer chemistry too much, you can’t add too much low-processed plant based material as a percentage of content, otherwise your foam won’t foam so good. So, you’ve either got to do some energy intensive polyol chain extension, or just go with a more readily available long-chain polyol source, crude oil. My fear is that the processing and chemistry inputs for improving the Castor polyols enough to meet specifications for higher concentrations will be more energy and material intensive than just deriving it from oil, as it currently stands.
Of course, I’m all for (r)evolutions in polyurethane chemistry that will allow for higher plant based content, but one also has to make sure the product quality actually exceeds that of conventional petrochemical based foams.

Really, I am merely opining that recycled or natural content branding and slogans don’t always do it for me anymore. In some products, it’s quite appropriate, in others, it’s a more minor issue. Insulation, in my view, is one of the latter. I need a more comprehensive life-cycle inventory of the various options, side-by-side in order to be a believer (Of course, I’m not holding my breath) :)

]]> By: Luke http://greenbuildingelements.com/2009/06/19/green-and-greenwashing-at-pcbc-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-99712 Luke Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:03:00 +0000 http://greenbuildingelements.com/?p=1165#comment-99712 Keith, Interesting stuff, especially since I couldn't make it to PCBC this year... Recycled content in foam insulation is something I've been thinking about lately, and it occurs to me that maybe the recycled, or 'natural' content in this case is possibly missing the boat. My understanding of chemistry of these foams is this: one part diisocyanurate (simple, straight up) to one part of some polyol mixture (heterogeneous-- where the Castor oil fits in). In order to not mess up the polymer chemistry too much, you can't add too much low-processed plant based material as a percentage of content, otherwise your foam won't foam so good. So, you've either got to do some energy intensive polyol chain extension, or just go with a more readily available long-chain polyol source, crude oil. My fear is that the processing and chemistry inputs for improving the Castor polyols enough to meet specifications for higher concentrations will be more energy and material intensive than just deriving it from oil, as it currently stands. Of course, I'm all for (r)evolutions in polyurethane chemistry that will allow for higher plant based content, but one also has to make sure the product quality actually exceeds that of conventional petrochemical based foams. Really, I am merely opining that recycled or natural content branding and slogans don't always do it for me anymore. In some products, it's quite appropriate, in others, it's a more minor issue. Insulation, in my view, is one of the latter. I need a more comprehensive life-cycle inventory of the various options, side-by-side in order to be a believer (Of course, I'm not holding my breath) :) Keith,
Interesting stuff, especially since I couldn’t make it to PCBC this year…
Recycled content in foam insulation is something I’ve been thinking about lately, and it occurs to me that maybe the recycled, or ‘natural’ content in this case is possibly missing the boat.
My understanding of chemistry of these foams is this: one part diisocyanurate (simple, straight up) to one part of some polyol mixture (heterogeneous– where the Castor oil fits in). In order to not mess up the polymer chemistry too much, you can’t add too much low-processed plant based material as a percentage of content, otherwise your foam won’t foam so good. So, you’ve either got to do some energy intensive polyol chain extension, or just go with a more readily available long-chain polyol source, crude oil. My fear is that the processing and chemistry inputs for improving the Castor polyols enough to meet specifications for higher concentrations will be more energy and material intensive than just deriving it from oil, as it currently stands.
Of course, I’m all for (r)evolutions in polyurethane chemistry that will allow for higher plant based content, but one also has to make sure the product quality actually exceeds that of conventional petrochemical based foams.

Really, I am merely opining that recycled or natural content branding and slogans don’t always do it for me anymore. In some products, it’s quite appropriate, in others, it’s a more minor issue. Insulation, in my view, is one of the latter. I need a more comprehensive life-cycle inventory of the various options, side-by-side in order to be a believer (Of course, I’m not holding my breath) :)

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