Fight over Radon in Granite Countertops Heats Up
Please visit an updated post on radon in granite countertops here: A Rational Discussion on Radon in Granite Countertops
The Marble Institute of America better get ready for another round of fighting because the issue of radon in granite countertops is back. For the past decade, the MIA has been trying, with much success, to squash the rumor that granite countertops have the potential to add dangerous amounts of radon in the home. A new study being conducted by Houston area not-for-profit BuildClean is raising old fears about the dangers of granite countertops, and its preliminary results show that while most granite countertops in the study contain very little to no radon at all, the countertops that do contain radon have levels that are frighteningly high. While consumers can be secure in the fact that the vast majority of granite is perfectly safe, a small percentage is still in question, and no independent scientific study exists to assuage consumer fears.
The first issue of Solid Surface in 1995 explored the possibility that granite countertops may pose a health risk. Soon, the MIA issued their response, which attacked the credibility of the science involved in the study as well as the fact that the advertisers in the journal included companies that competed with granite countertop manufacturers. But one phrase in the response, a highlighted phrase no less, is troubling: “…actual levels of radon gas emmissions are so low as to be insignificant and generally represent no threat.” As a father, I don’t want to be assured that there is “generally” no threat to my family. I want to know there is no threat. And after BuildClean* found that 3 of 95 granite countertops contained harmful amounts of radon, would the MIA consider such a small number to be “generally” no threat? I’m sure the owners of those three countertops are not reassured.
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(*Correction: BuildClean did not find that 3 of 95 countertops contained harmful amounts of radon. Rather, the results are from a study by Dr. William Llope, a Rice University Physicist, who is not associated with either BuildClean or the MIA. His comments can be found on the third page of comments below.)
Look around for information on radon in granite and you will find many sites telling you the “truth” or uncovering “myths” about radon. Since many of the statistics cited are the same, it’s clear that much of the information comes from the MIA response linked above or from an updated (though with the same references) MIA PDF. My personal favorite was a site titled “Ask an Expert - 9 Myths about Granite” where they claim that “No one today takes credit for starting the rumor, and certainly no one supports it.” No one? They then make the claim that granite actually has healing properties. Most troubling is the fact that, as experts, they don’t seem to know that “lose” is spelled with only one “o.” The most common argument you’ll find, that radon occurs naturally, really needs to be taken out of their playbook. Just because it’s on the periodic table of the elements doesn’t mean I want it in my house. I’m talking to you, Californium.
In late 2007, the MIA scuffled with Home Safety Systems, which sells radon detectors. Like the fight over the original journal article, this seems to be another example of competing companies arguing science, which doesn’t sit right with me. The current BuildClean study is funded in part by Silestone and Cambria, two competitors of granite countertops. (Ironically, Silestone is a sponsor of the “Ask the Experts” article above - their logo is at the bottom of the page.)
So how do we start trusting that granite is safe? An independent study done by the EPA would be a good start. Leave corporate interests out of it. And don’t give us general findings - tell us exactly what was found. Since radon is found naturally in some parts of the earth, the MIA needs to admit that there is a possibility that some granite will contain radon, and then show how they are making sure such slabs do not make their way into our homes. Are granite countertops screened for radon before reaching the consumer? (Maybe the folks over at Home Safety Systems can help the MIA out with that.) Otherwise, without solid assurances, it won’t be long until consumers reject granite outright.
For information on green alternatives to granite, try Green Counter Culture.
Before commenting, please visit our updated post on radon in granite countertops here: A Rational Discussion on Radon in Granite Countertops
Sorry Huligar.
There are so many lies told about this issue it takes a long post to address them.
Be sure and tell the people here that you guys didn’t wait to start the tests. It takes several weeks for the Radon to build up to maximum levels. Re do your tests in two weeks and you will have a valid test.
Seems these lying skunks like buildclean will say and do anything to sell their radon Sniffers.
Alternately one could buy an overpriced piece of plastic masquerading as “stone”. Just the thing to have in your house, a kitchen benchtop that self ignites at 400 degrees, and emits cancerous and toxic smoke.
Must be terrifying to think that the bedrock of the continents is granite, we are surrounded by it, we live in on and around it, always have and always will, and yet somehow a few metres of it in your kitchen are life threatening?. Best way to keep your son safe is buy him a bubble boy outfit, cos he and you and us are surrounded.
Geez another sucker buys and sells the big corporate lie.
Thanks for waiting. I just got back from Vegas where the people who come up with programs to deal with Radon and Radiation were having a conference and one of the topics was building materials.
I personally spoke to Stanley P. Liebert of CMT Laboratories who denied any direct or indirect correspondence with our Al or the SSA. Mr. Liebert went on to say that the only thing that he is hoping to point out is the fact that 10 out of the 2000 granites emit some radiation. This however, does not directly translate to what we have been reading on the web. That is, if you have a slab that has some traces of radiation it will give off radon with in the next ten generations. Mr. Liebert is also the proud owner of granite as well. He thinks it’s crazy for someone to remove a counter top simply because of one area that may show a reading.
I also had the pleasure of speaking with Erik Listou of Build Responsible, Gary Hodgden of AAIR Professionals, Bill Brodhead of WPB Enterprises Inc, and Shawn Price of Air Chek, Inc. These guys gave me a crash course in radiation and radon while confirming that we had the hottest stone measured to date.
Everyone that I spoke to all had the same conclusion. At this time the radiation from natural stone has no significant bearing on the radon levels in a home. It was also explained and demonstrated that the meters on the market are not the best tools to go hunting for radon coming from natural stone. The areas of a slab can be easily avoided or even removed if deemed necessary.
In the NSRA test kitchen, the numbers before the installation were all very low. All were less than 0.3 pCi/l on the days of testing (about as low as anyone can measure.)
The test kit in the hall was 0.6 pCi/l
The test kit hanging in the door way was 0.8
The test kit hanging from the cabinets was 0.7
And the one we hung 12″ over the “hottest” spot was 1.0 pCi/l
This test was done in a way to make sure we got the highest readings possible. We now intend on testing the home as if we were simply testing for radon in the home.
——————————————————
Al I like the way you still run around the net.
Where did you you get your information that it takes weeks for the radon to build up? If you are referring to that paper by Bill when he was testing the cargo container, he already said you took his work out of context and you fully mis-understood his what he wrote.
It only takes 24 hours before you can get a reading as you may know at this point. Al I have said this to you already, you are more than welcome to and run your own test. As you know we have the hottest slab to be measure to this date. You were invited to help find the slab but you ran away when you notice it was not a bluff.
Al, please find a norther way to sell your meters.
Running from one blog to the next when someone corners you is getting old.
Al, the NSRA is here to find the truth, we make our money by fixing what may go wrong with stone,I was hoping that granite was a danger so we can find a way to fix and but money in our pockets.
Thank you everyone for your comments. Please continue this discussion here: http://greenbuildingelements.com/2008/09/18/a-rational-discussion-on-radon-in-granite-countertops/
[...] this post? Subscribe to our RSS feed and stay up to date.This post is a follow-up to The Fight Over Radon in Granite Countertops Heats Up, which will provide some background information on the granite/radon [...]
{advertising redacted}
RADON IN GRANITE
“What a crock of cheap “salesmanship” put out by the losers!”
This information is copyrighted by the Marble Institute of America,
but may be reproduced, with credit given to the Marble Institute of
America.
Solid Surface, The Journal of the Solid Surface Industry (Volume 1 Number
1) that was published several weeks ago included an article entitled “Granite
& Radon”. The introduction to the article stated “Scientific research poses
disturbing questions about the safety of granite countertops” and copies of
this article have circulated around the stone industry raising questions about
radon gas emissions from granite countertops. The key advertisers in this
journal were Corian and Formica.
The MIA has called upon several of the country’s leading scientists in
geology and geochemistry to assist in preparing a response to the
allegations in this article that radon gas emissions from granite
countertops may be hazardous. On reading the article, our consultants
reacted with such comments as “ludicrous”, “a fabulous collage of
nonsense”, “politically motivated”, “unethical”, and “bizarre”.
Donald Langmuir, PhD, Professor Emeritus of Chemistry and
Geochemistry at the Colorado School of Mines and President of
Hydrochemical Systems Corp., both in Golden, Colorado, has prepared
a response on behalf of the Marble Institute of America that evaluates
and refutes these allegations. His report appears in full in this Special
Bulletin. Dr. Langmuir received his BA (with honors), and his MA and
PhD degrees in geochemistry from Harvard University. He served as a
geochemist with the Ground Water Branch of the U.S. Geological
Survey’s Water Resources Division and subsequently taught and
conducted research for 11 years at Pennsylvania State University, with
temporary appointments at Rutgers University, the Nevada Desert
Research Institute, and the University of Sidney, Australia. Dr.
Langmuir has been a full professor at the Colorado School of Mines
since 1978.
Huligar,
Look, you are telling two major untruths in your post.
The first one is that Stan Liebert doesn’t know me, which if the moderator of this forum will email me privately, I will send Stan’s email address so the record can be set straight. But you, Huligar, already have read emails from both Stan and Brodhead proving that you are completely misrepresenting their work. Remember the one I posted today where Stan said you misunderstood what he had said? That 10% of the granites he has studied have issues, not 10 granites out of 2,000.
Secondly, you are claiming that the AARST convention decided that there are no issues with granite and Radon/radiation. Here is a link to their 2008 conference study/paper page where people can read Dr. Steck’s, Dr. Kitto’s, and Brodheads’s papers submitted at that conference.
http://www.aarst.org/radon_research_papers.shtml
Just look for the author’s name on the right column and click on the link to the respective study. As an example, Dr. Steck found that granite was indeed capable of emanating 4 pCi/L of Radon into a home.
Huligar spent one day at the AARST conference, hanging out at the Air Chek booth in the free exhibit room. Too cheap to pay the $450 conference fee, he did not get to sit in on any of the sessions. Not that he would have understood them anyway.
Now, the average reader might ask why two guys are bashing each other and demand that it be stopped, but please consider how important it is to get the truth out on this issue. In this case, Huligar is lying about two easily proven facts, so how would anyone in their right mind trust any test that this guy is in charge of?
And where do I get my Radon info? From Dr. Steck, DR. Llope, Dr. Kitto, and four Radon labs including Liebert and Brodhead. I think I have the moderators email address, if I can find it, I am going to send Joe a bunch of emails that show the experts on the Solid Surface Alliance’s email group. Hopefully Joe will report back and set the record straight. I know I wouldn’t want my blog being used to mislead consumers.
Oh, how I love it when the stone industry brings up Donald Langmuir, PhD. This fool wrote a article back in 1995 that the MIA still uses, as Harold just proved. In this “study”, Langmuir said that the average granite countertop had .85 of one radioactive decay per year.
Each click on a geiger counter is one radiation ray or particle hitting the gas inside a geiger counter, and even the lowest level granites will have about 120 counts per minute. But Dr. Llope tells us that the geiger counters catch around 2% of the total radiaton from a granite countertop under the probe.
So the real truth is that there are billions and even trillions of decays per year from a granite countertop. Anyone that brings up the Langmuir work is automatically labeled ignorant.
At the AARST convention on Tuesday, Dr. Kitto invited my wife and I to eat lunch with him. One of the more interesting bits of info was why he got involved with testing granite. Believe it or not, it was Langmuir’s .85 decays per year statement that got him interested. He said it was such a ridiculous statement that he wanted to disprove the info.
Well now, today I had an excellent adventure. I went to look at Granite for counter tops in Dubois PA when a big navy blue PA University van pulls in with people welding geiger counters. Seems this big university ordered several huge slices of black granite and they were there to see how much radon it was emitting. Now… I would like to tell you that customers fled…but since it was Saturday and there is never staff on the only day working people can shop, we had all been waiting awhile for our turn, soooo.. no one moved! One blond lady was actually asking the man with the geiger counter to check different slabs for her and questioning him. Here is what he told her: Normal humans get 300 millirems (mrem) a year from the air and water. He said the ground in central Pa reads about 130 mrem, but right there it was reading 180 mrem. The university’s black granite was “high,” 440 mrem but “Cleopatra” was really high 660 mem and the blond lady’s was 220 mrem, so she ordered. He said he was looking for some really, really high readings, to take some samples back to the university, to see if he could isolate the chemicals in the granite giving off high readings and locate it’s geographic source. The lady with him said she had to decide if she should cancel the order. He continued with his geiger counter… and we all ordered. One lady said her mamogram was most likely a higher dose of mrems than that. “So how much is too much,” the blond lady asked. The geiger counter man said he wouldn’t worry until it was 100 X 300. So go figure… I tried to research this, but the results depend on who paid for the study and what their motives were. I am more confused now than ever, and my friend said I should take the geiger counter man’s arrival when I was there as a sign…of what is my question!!!!!
Man has lived with igneous rock, Granite, since the dawn of age. It is only of late, that radon emmision has been noted. Different varieties of Granite emmit various levels of emmision, but at the ned of the day its is negligible and under safe values as given by safety standards. MIA (USA) has done a lot of research and radon is at a very safe level for domestic use by manking. However, proponents of Engineered stone want to promote their products by downgrading Granite. Study really reveals that Engineered stone really contains 22 to 27% by Volume quantities of resins, accelerators, activators, pigments, besides quartz depending on the formulation. It is affected by sunlight and eventually changes colour. It is affected by heat on constant placement beyond 120 to 350 degrees centrigrade. Engineered stone is a Plastic based product. The natural hues and colours of Granite cannot be obtained by Engineered stone. Stone can come in colors to a maximum of 300 to 500 variants, But, Granites comes in hues of 5000 to 7000 and then Natural stones like Lapis lazuli, Onyx, Tormaline etc. most semi precious stones. For all purposes Granite is unbeatable.
in what part of the earth can you find granite?