Please visit an updated post on radon in granite countertops here: A Rational Discussion on Radon in Granite Countertops
The Marble Institute of America better get ready for another round of fighting because the issue of radon in granite countertops is back. For the past decade, the MIA has been trying, with much success, to squash the rumor that granite countertops have the potential to add dangerous amounts of radon in the home. A new study being conducted by Houston area not-for-profit BuildClean is raising old fears about the dangers of granite countertops, and its preliminary results show that while most granite countertops in the study contain very little to no radon at all, the countertops that do contain radon have levels that are frighteningly high. While consumers can be secure in the fact that the vast majority of granite is perfectly safe, a small percentage is still in question, and no independent scientific study exists to assuage consumer fears.
The first issue of Solid Surface in 1995 explored the possibility that granite countertops may pose a health risk. Soon, the MIA issued their response, which attacked the credibility of the science involved in the study as well as the fact that the advertisers in the journal included companies that competed with granite countertop manufacturers. But one phrase in the response, a highlighted phrase no less, is troubling: “…actual levels of radon gas emmissions are so low as to be insignificant and generally represent no threat.” As a father, I don’t want to be assured that there is “generally” no threat to my family. I want to know there is no threat. And after BuildClean* found that 3 of 95 granite countertops contained harmful amounts of radon, would the MIA consider such a small number to be “generally” no threat? I’m sure the owners of those three countertops are not reassured.
(*Correction: BuildClean did not find that 3 of 95 countertops contained harmful amounts of radon. Rather, the results are from a study by Dr. William Llope, a Rice University Physicist, who is not associated with either BuildClean or the MIA. His comments can be found on the third page of comments below.)
Look around for information on radon in granite and you will find many sites telling you the “truth” or uncovering “myths” about radon. Since many of the statistics cited are the same, it’s clear that much of the information comes from the MIA response linked above or from an updated (though with the same references) MIA PDF. My personal favorite was a site titled “Ask an Expert – 9 Myths about Granite” where they claim that “No one today takes credit for starting the rumor, and certainly no one supports it.” No one? They then make the claim that granite actually has healing properties. Most troubling is the fact that, as experts, they don’t seem to know that “lose” is spelled with only one “o.” The most common argument you’ll find, that radon occurs naturally, really needs to be taken out of their playbook. Just because it’s on the periodic table of the elements doesn’t mean I want it in my house. I’m talking to you, Californium.
In late 2007, the MIA scuffled with Home Safety Systems, which sells radon detectors. Like the fight over the original journal article, this seems to be another example of competing companies arguing science, which doesn’t sit right with me. The current BuildClean study is funded in part by Silestone and Cambria, two competitors of granite countertops. (Ironically, Silestone is a sponsor of the “Ask the Experts” article above – their logo is at the bottom of the page.)
So how do we start trusting that granite is safe? An independent study done by the EPA would be a good start. Leave corporate interests out of it. And don’t give us general findings – tell us exactly what was found. Since radon is found naturally in some parts of the earth, the MIA needs to admit that there is a possibility that some granite will contain radon, and then show how they are making sure such slabs do not make their way into our homes. Are granite countertops screened for radon before reaching the consumer? (Maybe the folks over at Home Safety Systems can help the MIA out with that.) Otherwise, without solid assurances, it won’t be long until consumers reject granite outright.
For information on green alternatives to granite, try Green Counter Culture.
Before commenting, please visit our updated post on radon in granite countertops here: A Rational Discussion on Radon in Granite Countertops
Dr. Llope,
I want to thank you, not just for taking the time to post here, but for your continued work in this area as well as making yourself so accessible.
And did you just say that China has regulations in place for granite? The irony is making my head hurt.
Dr. Llope,
I want to thank you, not just for taking the time to post here, but for your continued work in this area as well as making yourself so accessible.
And did you just say that China has regulations in place for granite? The irony is making my head hurt.
Joel,
The Chinese law states that all stone products be tested if they are intended for building material.
Class A granite emits less than .3mSv/yr, and can be used inside homes, retirement homes, day cares, hospitals, anywhere where people spend lots of time.
Class B emits less than 1 mSv/yr, and can be used in lobbies, entry ways,outsides of buildings, steps, anywhere people will spend little time thus getting little exposure.
Class C can be used on piers, sea walls, stelles (higher panels on the outside of buildings) and so on.
Below Class C is to be used only where human contact is not expected, foundations, fill, and so on.
Testing is done by independent labs, by law, and stickers are placed on any product for Chinese home market use.
This is easily proven, google “Chinese Import Granite” or something close, and you will see that most companies advertise that their stone meets “Class A” standards. Does it really? No one knows for sure, since there is no restrictions on exporting Class B, C or below Class C to the United States or any other country.
As the one poster said, the EU, Canada, and many other countries do prohibit the importation of hot granite slabs or products. Canada has their laws on NORM posted on the internet, they use something like 50″ distance for Gamma radiation measurement, over .3 mSv/Yr, and it is not allowed. Most countries also have a Bq per kilo gram equvilant instead of distance based measurments.
Why does China have regulations in place? Simple, the Olymics committe pushed for a lot of regulations, envirnomental stuff, as part of China getting the Olymics this year.
There are a few nice people, but most people do nice things when it is in their interests!
Joel,
The Chinese law states that all stone products be tested if they are intended for building material.
Class A granite emits less than .3mSv/yr, and can be used inside homes, retirement homes, day cares, hospitals, anywhere where people spend lots of time.
Class B emits less than 1 mSv/yr, and can be used in lobbies, entry ways,outsides of buildings, steps, anywhere people will spend little time thus getting little exposure.
Class C can be used on piers, sea walls, stelles (higher panels on the outside of buildings) and so on.
Below Class C is to be used only where human contact is not expected, foundations, fill, and so on.
Testing is done by independent labs, by law, and stickers are placed on any product for Chinese home market use.
This is easily proven, google “Chinese Import Granite” or something close, and you will see that most companies advertise that their stone meets “Class A” standards. Does it really? No one knows for sure, since there is no restrictions on exporting Class B, C or below Class C to the United States or any other country.
As the one poster said, the EU, Canada, and many other countries do prohibit the importation of hot granite slabs or products. Canada has their laws on NORM posted on the internet, they use something like 50″ distance for Gamma radiation measurement, over .3 mSv/Yr, and it is not allowed. Most countries also have a Bq per kilo gram equvilant instead of distance based measurments.
Why does China have regulations in place? Simple, the Olymics committe pushed for a lot of regulations, envirnomental stuff, as part of China getting the Olymics this year.
There are a few nice people, but most people do nice things when it is in their interests!
Joel,
The Chinese law states that all stone products be tested if they are intended for building material.
Class A granite emits less than .3mSv/yr, and can be used inside homes, retirement homes, day cares, hospitals, anywhere where people spend lots of time.
Class B emits less than 1 mSv/yr, and can be used in lobbies, entry ways,outsides of buildings, steps, anywhere people will spend little time thus getting little exposure.
Class C can be used on piers, sea walls, stelles (higher panels on the outside of buildings) and so on.
Below Class C is to be used only where human contact is not expected, foundations, fill, and so on.
Testing is done by independent labs, by law, and stickers are placed on any product for Chinese home market use.
This is easily proven, google “Chinese Import Granite” or something close, and you will see that most companies advertise that their stone meets “Class A” standards. Does it really? No one knows for sure, since there is no restrictions on exporting Class B, C or below Class C to the United States or any other country.
As the one poster said, the EU, Canada, and many other countries do prohibit the importation of hot granite slabs or products. Canada has their laws on NORM posted on the internet, they use something like 50″ distance for Gamma radiation measurement, over .3 mSv/Yr, and it is not allowed. Most countries also have a Bq per kilo gram equvilant instead of distance based measurments.
Why does China have regulations in place? Simple, the Olymics committe pushed for a lot of regulations, envirnomental stuff, as part of China getting the Olymics this year.
There are a few nice people, but most people do nice things when it is in their interests!
There are three new developments in the battle.
The EPA has a new position on this issue, they say to radon test if you have a granite countertop.
There is a blog discussing this issue
solidsurfacealliance.org/blog/
You can find links to the Garden web thread and the EPA position on Radon and granite countertops
and the MIA has sent one of their shills over to Garden Web.com, the kitchen forum, to start a discussion. It isn’t going well for him.
There are three new developments in the battle.
The EPA has a new position on this issue, they say to radon test if you have a granite countertop.
There is a blog discussing this issue
solidsurfacealliance.org/blog/
You can find links to the Garden web thread and the EPA position on Radon and granite countertops
and the MIA has sent one of their shills over to Garden Web.com, the kitchen forum, to start a discussion. It isn’t going well for him.
There are three new developments in the battle.
The EPA has a new position on this issue, they say to radon test if you have a granite countertop.
There is a blog discussing this issue
solidsurfacealliance.org/blog/
You can find links to the Garden web thread and the EPA position on Radon and granite countertops
and the MIA has sent one of their shills over to Garden Web.com, the kitchen forum, to start a discussion. It isn’t going well for him.
Build Clean should put its money where it mouth is and mention specifically which granites it believes have dangerous levels of radon. This case was tried and lost years ago.
Build Clean should put its money where it mouth is and mention specifically which granites it believes have dangerous levels of radon. This case was tried and lost years ago.
Build Clean should put its money where it mouth is and mention specifically which granites it believes have dangerous levels of radon. This case was tried and lost years ago.
Clare,
You are missing the entire point, no one knows which ones emit dangerous Radon. We know of three cases in which three granite countertops had to be torn out because they contributed so much Radon to the homes.
Two were Shivakaski, one was Jupanara Bordeaux. There are thousands of countertops of both types out there, but since you can’t see, taste, or smell radiation or Radon, know one knew to look for it.
If this was about tomatoes, spinach, or peanut butter having salmonella, would you still ask that they be proven unsafe before pulling them from the market? Of course not, the only decent thing to do is to start testing all slabs prior to use so no more high radiation level granites are sold to unsuspecting consumers, then go back and track down what was sold, test it, and replace as needed.
Besides Shivakaski and Bordeaux, add most of the African Range granites to the list, Niagara Gold, Lady’s Dream, Natahila, and Savanah.
THAT WE KNOW OF……
From what I have seen, forget about the Radon, the high radioactivity stones are just as dangerous. We found out this week that once past a certain level, our meters read extremely low, 60 to 80 times lower than the meter reads. What we thought was going to test at 10 mR/hr, read over 700 mR/hr using a more expensive meter that was able to read the higher level radiation.
For reference, a single chest X ray is around 22 mR exposure.
Clare, it amazes me when people attempt to dismiss this issue. What is your motivation?
Clare,
You are missing the entire point, no one knows which ones emit dangerous Radon. We know of three cases in which three granite countertops had to be torn out because they contributed so much Radon to the homes.
Two were Shivakaski, one was Jupanara Bordeaux. There are thousands of countertops of both types out there, but since you can’t see, taste, or smell radiation or Radon, know one knew to look for it.
If this was about tomatoes, spinach, or peanut butter having salmonella, would you still ask that they be proven unsafe before pulling them from the market? Of course not, the only decent thing to do is to start testing all slabs prior to use so no more high radiation level granites are sold to unsuspecting consumers, then go back and track down what was sold, test it, and replace as needed.
Besides Shivakaski and Bordeaux, add most of the African Range granites to the list, Niagara Gold, Lady’s Dream, Natahila, and Savanah.
THAT WE KNOW OF……
From what I have seen, forget about the Radon, the high radioactivity stones are just as dangerous. We found out this week that once past a certain level, our meters read extremely low, 60 to 80 times lower than the meter reads. What we thought was going to test at 10 mR/hr, read over 700 mR/hr using a more expensive meter that was able to read the higher level radiation.
For reference, a single chest X ray is around 22 mR exposure.
Clare, it amazes me when people attempt to dismiss this issue. What is your motivation?
It has also been found that one of the individuals who is in this non-profit group owns a laminate countertop business….so don’t you think he is a little biased? Read this article about granite. This is ridiculous that this keeps coming up.
http://www.granitestock.com/news/granite_radiation_danger_myth.php
It has also been found that one of the individuals who is in this non-profit group owns a laminate countertop business….so don’t you think he is a little biased? Read this article about granite. This is ridiculous that this keeps coming up.
http://www.granitestock.com/news/granite_radiation_danger_myth.php
It has also been found that one of the individuals who is in this non-profit group owns a laminate countertop business….so don’t you think he is a little biased? Read this article about granite. This is ridiculous that this keeps coming up.
http://www.granitestock.com/news/granite_radiation_danger_myth.php
Thanks for your comment, Shirley. The fact that opposing research seems to have come from people and businesses that could profit from their findings makes the whole issue seem tainted and unscientific, which is why people are calling for independent scientific studies to get to the bottom of the issue, rather than just slinging accusations.
The site you linked references a study done over a decade ago, which I talked about in the original article. The issue is back in the news because scientists not associated with either side have recently found radon in granite (see comments above by Dr. Llope.)
Thanks for your comment, Shirley. The fact that opposing research seems to have come from people and businesses that could profit from their findings makes the whole issue seem tainted and unscientific, which is why people are calling for independent scientific studies to get to the bottom of the issue, rather than just slinging accusations.
The site you linked references a study done over a decade ago, which I talked about in the original article. The issue is back in the news because scientists not associated with either side have recently found radon in granite (see comments above by Dr. Llope.)
Thanks for your comment, Shirley. The fact that opposing research seems to have come from people and businesses that could profit from their findings makes the whole issue seem tainted and unscientific, which is why people are calling for independent scientific studies to get to the bottom of the issue, rather than just slinging accusations.
The site you linked references a study done over a decade ago, which I talked about in the original article. The issue is back in the news because scientists not associated with either side have recently found radon in granite (see comments above by Dr. Llope.)
When marketing a product, one expects a bit of hype. The idea is to show that the product is the best over the competitor’s line of product. That is the trade of advertisers and the history of marketing. Some tactics used to sell can be humorous or as serious as the competition between manufacturers. Marketing tactics that play on fears of the general public can be a very powerful tool.
In the present day, there’s a very popular angle of “green.” This is prevalent everywhere in the media. So what happens when you mix a scare tactic under the guise of environmental concern?
Buildclean found the answer to that question. The premise seems of the nonprofit organization seems to be admirable but the fact that the “awareness campaign” that Buildclean is currently using seems to be curiously slanted. In fact, the target seems to be the natural stone industry.
When Sara Selber of BuildClean was asked how she got involved in natural stone and radon, she explained how she was approached by the owner of C&C North America, a company that produces two products – granite and a quartz product called Silestone®™.
“C&C North America then recruited a quartz company called Cambria, after they learned quartz was an issue, she further explained that the two companies hired her to test quartz, granite and other surfaces for radon emission. Both companies are testing their products through BuildClean, and they contracted two labs – one in New York and one in Israel.
We have looked all over the C&C website but cannot find any mention of natural stone.
When ask what granites emit radon, Sara Selber said; “Not all granites emit radon or radiation. There are some that clearly do. There are some that absolutely don’t. We don’t know,” she said.
They’re being set up as a non-profit, and they’re funded with two large donations.
The first is $250,000 from the makers of ‘Silestone.’ They manufacture quartz countertops, which is a direct competitor to granite. Silestone finance records show that they started out in April of 1998 with a an initial investment of $410K, made there first million in 1998, sales in 2002 was over $70M, and sales in 2006 was well over $260M. it is not hard to see that they have the money to invest $250,000 in a new advertising campaign.
BuildClean is also getting money from Cambria, another quartz manufacturer.
In fact, Cambria’s marketing director is on BuildClean’s board of directors.
When asked about the funding Sara responds: I don’t believe the issue is who our founders are. And I’m not going to have that debate.” That answer seems to be clear enough.
In a recent interview Mrs. Selber mentions teaming up with Al Gerhart who has some interest in the granite radon scare.
Al Gerhart is a carpenter whohappens to own a website called the Solid Surface Alliance .org. He educated himself, regarding materials he works with that may expose him to harmful elements.”
Upon further review it seems this “personality” is well known for his view of natural stone. All one has to do is look at the website to get the gist of his viewpoint. Coincidentally, there also seems to be a new business venture for Solid Surface Alliance as the website now sells Geiger counters to detect radiation…
His debates have earned him quite a place online in forums discussing the subject.
After a certain debate on a well known residential forum, a renowned geoscientist in the industry concluded:
“Al attempts to hijack debates by choking the system with verbal diarrhea. The problem appears to be that he has a bit of knowledge about some things but not enough sense and understanding of the subjects. In that debate on the Garden Forum he threw in so many fabrications (plain made up lies) that his credibility just plummeted to zero.
Anyone who operates this way (by including a number of facts to gain an element of credibility in the eyes of a generally uninformed audience, twisting facts deliberately or because of his lack of understanding, and then throwing in a number of lies) does not deserve extended airtime. Many years ago when doing science psychology I still remember my professor giving the advice to his students that you should never engage a nutter in debate. You can never win an argument with such people. I recognized this early in the forum and that is why I would not engage him in “debate”.
One of his major problems is that he does not know what the numbers mean and how they are derived.”
In response to the buildclean tactics, The Marble Institute of America is in the process of doing their own independent study:
“The Marble Institute of America (MIA) is grateful for the preliminary response from the members to the newly established Truth About Granite Fund. Based on this positive response, it’s clear that their colleagues share their commitment to protect consumers from needless fear mongering by establishing standards for the testing of granite so consumers can safely and comfortably enjoy the beauty, durability and practicality of this natural stone.”
When we asked the MIA why Sara Speer Selber consider The Truth About Granite Fund as a draconian move that is being waged against BuildClean(TM), they simple responded:
“The Truth About Granite Fund was established to help raise funds to develop unbiased, scientific standards for the granite industry, including the testing of granite for radon. No such standards currently exist in the natural stone industry. Previous tests of granite samples have found they are safe. However, the Truth in Granite Fund aims to take advantage of new, advanced scientific instruments that make testing both more practical and more accurate. Our goal is to make sure testing follows consistent protocols, so that future studies are meaningful and based on consistent, approved science – not isolated methodologies or unapproved instruments. Ultimately, our goal is to make sure the granite we sell is safe.”
This latest sales tactic received the attention of an independent group called the Natural Stone Restoration Alliance (NSRA). The NSRA saw Radon testing as an added service that their members could provide to the homeowners along with all their other services for natural stone. Josveek Huligar, one of the lead testers and trainer for the NSRA , invited times Members of the Solid Surface Alliance dot org to discuss and provide proof of this threat to the home owners.
The Solid Surface Alliance dot org agreed to provide an alleged radiation producing granite sample that they claim to have in their possession to do independent testing. After an initial agreement between the two groups it seems the Solid Surface Alliance dot org has reneged on the delivery of the alleged material. Mr Huligar was disappointed of the outcome. The NSRA than requested the name of the company that Mr. Gerhart claimed to just have rejected over 10k worth of radon producing granite. When the information was not provided, Huligar ask if he could purchase the next slab that Mr. Gerhart rejected. But for some reason Mr. Gerhart could no longer find a sample for testing. Mr. Huligar went on to say: “All we care about at this point. As for whether are not Stone adds a measurable amount of “radon” in a home, Mr. Gerhart had agreed to come to NY and pick out a hot slab that I would place in my own home after testing my home for radon. Once the granite was installed I would test my home again as described by the EPA and have it tested by someone approved by the EPA. Not only would we do the short and long term test, we would also video tape the whole event, the selection, the creation, the install, and than setting up cameras for anyone to view the stone and meters on the net. I was looking forward to do this, but at this time it appears that Mr. Gerhart has no plans on doing as he said which is a big disappointment.”
The NSRA plans to push for this simple test, they feel that the consumers only care about one thing; “whether or not adding granite in your home would significantly change the radon levels in a home”. At present, the most prudent consumer should watch the outcome of this debate and make an informed decision, not taken in by a scare tactic by advertisers.
EPA Confirms That Granite Countertops Pose No Significant Health Risk
http://nsraweb.com/index.php/Latest/EPA_Confirms_That_Granite_Countertops_Pose_No_Significant_Health_Risk.html
When marketing a product, one expects a bit of hype. The idea is to show that the product is the best over the competitor’s line of product. That is the trade of advertisers and the history of marketing. Some tactics used to sell can be humorous or as serious as the competition between manufacturers. Marketing tactics that play on fears of the general public can be a very powerful tool.
In the present day, there’s a very popular angle of “green.” This is prevalent everywhere in the media. So what happens when you mix a scare tactic under the guise of environmental concern?
Buildclean found the answer to that question. The premise seems of the nonprofit organization seems to be admirable but the fact that the “awareness campaign” that Buildclean is currently using seems to be curiously slanted. In fact, the target seems to be the natural stone industry.
When Sara Selber of BuildClean was asked how she got involved in natural stone and radon, she explained how she was approached by the owner of C&C North America, a company that produces two products – granite and a quartz product called Silestone®™.
“C&C North America then recruited a quartz company called Cambria, after they learned quartz was an issue, she further explained that the two companies hired her to test quartz, granite and other surfaces for radon emission. Both companies are testing their products through BuildClean, and they contracted two labs – one in New York and one in Israel.
We have looked all over the C&C website but cannot find any mention of natural stone.
When ask what granites emit radon, Sara Selber said; “Not all granites emit radon or radiation. There are some that clearly do. There are some that absolutely don’t. We don’t know,” she said.
They’re being set up as a non-profit, and they’re funded with two large donations.
The first is $250,000 from the makers of ‘Silestone.’ They manufacture quartz countertops, which is a direct competitor to granite. Silestone finance records show that they started out in April of 1998 with a an initial investment of $410K, made there first million in 1998, sales in 2002 was over $70M, and sales in 2006 was well over $260M. it is not hard to see that they have the money to invest $250,000 in a new advertising campaign.
BuildClean is also getting money from Cambria, another quartz manufacturer.
In fact, Cambria’s marketing director is on BuildClean’s board of directors.
When asked about the funding Sara responds: I don’t believe the issue is who our founders are. And I’m not going to have that debate.” That answer seems to be clear enough.
In a recent interview Mrs. Selber mentions teaming up with Al Gerhart who has some interest in the granite radon scare.
Al Gerhart is a carpenter whohappens to own a website called the Solid Surface Alliance .org. He educated himself, regarding materials he works with that may expose him to harmful elements.”
Upon further review it seems this “personality” is well known for his view of natural stone. All one has to do is look at the website to get the gist of his viewpoint. Coincidentally, there also seems to be a new business venture for Solid Surface Alliance as the website now sells Geiger counters to detect radiation…
His debates have earned him quite a place online in forums discussing the subject.
After a certain debate on a well known residential forum, a renowned geoscientist in the industry concluded:
“Al attempts to hijack debates by choking the system with verbal diarrhea. The problem appears to be that he has a bit of knowledge about some things but not enough sense and understanding of the subjects. In that debate on the Garden Forum he threw in so many fabrications (plain made up lies) that his credibility just plummeted to zero.
Anyone who operates this way (by including a number of facts to gain an element of credibility in the eyes of a generally uninformed audience, twisting facts deliberately or because of his lack of understanding, and then throwing in a number of lies) does not deserve extended airtime. Many years ago when doing science psychology I still remember my professor giving the advice to his students that you should never engage a nutter in debate. You can never win an argument with such people. I recognized this early in the forum and that is why I would not engage him in “debate”.
One of his major problems is that he does not know what the numbers mean and how they are derived.”
In response to the buildclean tactics, The Marble Institute of America is in the process of doing their own independent study:
“The Marble Institute of America (MIA) is grateful for the preliminary response from the members to the newly established Truth About Granite Fund. Based on this positive response, it’s clear that their colleagues share their commitment to protect consumers from needless fear mongering by establishing standards for the testing of granite so consumers can safely and comfortably enjoy the beauty, durability and practicality of this natural stone.”
When we asked the MIA why Sara Speer Selber consider The Truth About Granite Fund as a draconian move that is being waged against BuildClean(TM), they simple responded:
“The Truth About Granite Fund was established to help raise funds to develop unbiased, scientific standards for the granite industry, including the testing of granite for radon. No such standards currently exist in the natural stone industry. Previous tests of granite samples have found they are safe. However, the Truth in Granite Fund aims to take advantage of new, advanced scientific instruments that make testing both more practical and more accurate. Our goal is to make sure testing follows consistent protocols, so that future studies are meaningful and based on consistent, approved science – not isolated methodologies or unapproved instruments. Ultimately, our goal is to make sure the granite we sell is safe.”
This latest sales tactic received the attention of an independent group called the Natural Stone Restoration Alliance (NSRA). The NSRA saw Radon testing as an added service that their members could provide to the homeowners along with all their other services for natural stone. Josveek Huligar, one of the lead testers and trainer for the NSRA , invited times Members of the Solid Surface Alliance dot org to discuss and provide proof of this threat to the home owners.
The Solid Surface Alliance dot org agreed to provide an alleged radiation producing granite sample that they claim to have in their possession to do independent testing. After an initial agreement between the two groups it seems the Solid Surface Alliance dot org has reneged on the delivery of the alleged material. Mr Huligar was disappointed of the outcome. The NSRA than requested the name of the company that Mr. Gerhart claimed to just have rejected over 10k worth of radon producing granite. When the information was not provided, Huligar ask if he could purchase the next slab that Mr. Gerhart rejected. But for some reason Mr. Gerhart could no longer find a sample for testing. Mr. Huligar went on to say: “All we care about at this point. As for whether are not Stone adds a measurable amount of “radon” in a home, Mr. Gerhart had agreed to come to NY and pick out a hot slab that I would place in my own home after testing my home for radon. Once the granite was installed I would test my home again as described by the EPA and have it tested by someone approved by the EPA. Not only would we do the short and long term test, we would also video tape the whole event, the selection, the creation, the install, and than setting up cameras for anyone to view the stone and meters on the net. I was looking forward to do this, but at this time it appears that Mr. Gerhart has no plans on doing as he said which is a big disappointment.”
The NSRA plans to push for this simple test, they feel that the consumers only care about one thing; “whether or not adding granite in your home would significantly change the radon levels in a home”. At present, the most prudent consumer should watch the outcome of this debate and make an informed decision, not taken in by a scare tactic by advertisers.
EPA Confirms That Granite Countertops Pose No Significant Health Risk
http://nsraweb.com/index.php/Latest/EPA_Confirms_That_Granite_Countertops_Pose_No_Significant_Health_Risk.html
When marketing a product, one expects a bit of hype. The idea is to show that the product is the best over the competitor’s line of product. That is the trade of advertisers and the history of marketing. Some tactics used to sell can be humorous or as serious as the competition between manufacturers. Marketing tactics that play on fears of the general public can be a very powerful tool.
In the present day, there’s a very popular angle of “green.” This is prevalent everywhere in the media. So what happens when you mix a scare tactic under the guise of environmental concern?
Buildclean found the answer to that question. The premise seems of the nonprofit organization seems to be admirable but the fact that the “awareness campaign” that Buildclean is currently using seems to be curiously slanted. In fact, the target seems to be the natural stone industry.
When Sara Selber of BuildClean was asked how she got involved in natural stone and radon, she explained how she was approached by the owner of C&C North America, a company that produces two products – granite and a quartz product called Silestone®™.
“C&C North America then recruited a quartz company called Cambria, after they learned quartz was an issue, she further explained that the two companies hired her to test quartz, granite and other surfaces for radon emission. Both companies are testing their products through BuildClean, and they contracted two labs – one in New York and one in Israel.
We have looked all over the C&C website but cannot find any mention of natural stone.
When ask what granites emit radon, Sara Selber said; “Not all granites emit radon or radiation. There are some that clearly do. There are some that absolutely don’t. We don’t know,” she said.
They’re being set up as a non-profit, and they’re funded with two large donations.
The first is $250,000 from the makers of ‘Silestone.’ They manufacture quartz countertops, which is a direct competitor to granite. Silestone finance records show that they started out in April of 1998 with a an initial investment of $410K, made there first million in 1998, sales in 2002 was over $70M, and sales in 2006 was well over $260M. it is not hard to see that they have the money to invest $250,000 in a new advertising campaign.
BuildClean is also getting money from Cambria, another quartz manufacturer.
In fact, Cambria’s marketing director is on BuildClean’s board of directors.
When asked about the funding Sara responds: I don’t believe the issue is who our founders are. And I’m not going to have that debate.” That answer seems to be clear enough.
In a recent interview Mrs. Selber mentions teaming up with Al Gerhart who has some interest in the granite \radon scare.
Al Gerhart is a carpenter whohappens to own a website called the Solid Surface Alliance .org. He educated himself, regarding materials he works with that may expose him to harmful elements.”
Upon further review it seems this “personality” is well known for his view of natural stone. All one has to do is look at the website to get the gist of his viewpoint. Coincidentally, there also seems to be a new business venture for Solid Surface Alliance as the website now sells Geiger counters to detect radiation…
His debates have earned him quite a place online in forums discussing the subject.
After a certain debate on a well known residential forum, a renowned geoscientist in the industry concluded:
“Al attempts to hijack debates by choking the system with verbal diarrhea. The problem appears to be that he has a bit of knowledge about some things but not enough sense and understanding of the subjects. In that debate on the Garden Forum he threw in so many fabrications (plain made up lies) that his credibility just plummeted to zero.
Anyone who operates this way (by including a number of facts to gain an element of credibility in the eyes of a generally uninformed audience, twisting facts deliberately or because of his lack of understanding, and then throwing in a number of lies) does not deserve extended airtime. Many years ago when doing science psychology I still remember my professor giving the advice to his students that you should never engage a nutter in debate. You can never win an argument with such people. I recognized this early in the forum and that is why I would not engage him in “debate”.
One of his major problems is that he does not know what the numbers mean and how they are derived.”
In response to the buildclean tactics, The Marble Institute of America is in the process of doing their own independent study:
“The Marble Institute of America (MIA) is grateful for the preliminary response from the members to the newly established Truth About Granite Fund. Based on this positive response, it’s clear that their colleagues share their commitment to protect consumers from needless fear mongering by establishing standards for the testing of granite so consumers can safely and comfortably enjoy the beauty, durability and practicality of this natural stone.”
When we asked the MIA why Sara Speer Selber consider The Truth About Granite Fund as a draconian move that is being waged against BuildClean(TM), they simple responded:
“The Truth About Granite Fund was established to help raise funds to develop unbiased, scientific standards for the granite industry, including the testing of granite for radon. No such standards currently exist in the natural stone industry. Previous tests of granite samples have found they are safe. However, the Truth in Granite Fund aims to take advantage of new, advanced scientific instruments that make testing both more practical and more accurate. Our goal is to make sure testing follows consistent protocols, so that future studies are meaningful and based on consistent, approved science – not isolated methodologies or unapproved instruments. Ultimately, our goal is to make sure the granite we sell is safe.”
This latest sales tactic received the attention of an independent group called the Natural Stone Restoration Alliance (NSRA). The NSRA saw Radon testing as an added service that their members could provide to the homeowners along with all their other services for natural stone. Josveek Huligar, one of the lead testers and trainer for the NSRA , invited times Members of the Solid Surface Alliance dot org to discuss and provide proof of this threat to the home owners.
The Solid Surface Alliance dot org agreed to provide an alleged radiation producing granite sample that they claim to have in their possession to do independent testing. After an initial agreement between the two groups it seems the Solid Surface Alliance dot org has reneged on the delivery of the alleged material. Mr Huligar was disappointed of the outcome. The NSRA than requested the name of the company that Mr. Gerhart claimed to just have rejected over 10k worth of radon producing granite. When the information was not provided, Huligar ask if he could purchase the next slab that Mr. Gerhart rejected. But for some reason Mr. Gerhart could no longer find a sample for testing. Mr. Huligar went on to say: “All we care about at this point. As for whether are not Stone adds a measurable amount of “radon” in a home, Mr. Gerhart had agreed to come to NY and pick out a hot slab that I would place in my own home after testing my home for radon. Once the granite was installed I would test my home again as described by the EPA and have it tested by someone approved by the EPA. Not only would we do the short and long term test, we would also video tape the whole event, the selection, the creation, the install, and than setting up cameras for anyone to view the stone and meters on the net. I was looking forward to do this, but at this time it appears that Mr. Gerhart has no plans on doing as he said which is a big disappointment.”
The NSRA plans to push for this simple test, they feel that the consumers only care about one thing; “whether or not adding granite in your home would significantly change the radon levels in a home”. At present, the most prudent consumer should watch the outcome of this debate and make an informed decision, not taken in by a scare tactic by advertisers.
EPA Confirms That Granite Countertops Pose No Significant Health Risk
http://nsraweb.com/index.php/Latest/EPA_Confirms_That_Granite_Countertops_Pose_No_Significant_Health_Risk.html
This issue won’t go away by discounting the opposition. It will only go away by reassuring the public. I’m not sure if you are aware but the article you linked to is not from the EPA but from a Natural Stone website, and in fact the EPA has said that 85% of granite is perfectly safe, which isn’t very reassuring.
The MIA has recently announced that they are assembling a panel of scientists to develop a protocol for testing granite countertops for radioactivity. I, and many others, applaud them for taking this step.
This issue won’t go away by discounting the opposition. It will only go away by reassuring the public. I’m not sure if you are aware but the article you linked to is not from the EPA but from a Natural Stone website, and in fact the EPA has said that 85% of granite is perfectly safe, which isn’t very reassuring.
The MIA has recently announced that they are assembling a panel of scientists to develop a protocol for testing granite countertops for radioactivity. I, and many others, applaud them for taking this step.
This issue won’t go away by discounting the opposition. It will only go away by reassuring the public. I’m not sure if you are aware but the article you linked to is not from the EPA but from a Natural Stone website, and in fact the EPA has said that 85% of granite is perfectly safe, which isn’t very reassuring.
The MIA has recently announced that they are assembling a panel of scientists to develop a protocol for testing granite countertops for radioactivity. I, and many others, applaud them for taking this step.
We offer on site testing for Seattle,WA area. Pacific Northwest Inspections Group,LLC
Please use our online form for info.
Thanks
We offer on site testing for Seattle,WA area. Pacific Northwest Inspections Group,LLC
Please use our online form for info.
Thanks
It seems that one with negative feedback was the Innovative/Stonemar granite. Is this granite tested before it is installed in homes??? What do you know about their Canelle????
It seems that one with negative feedback was the Innovative/Stonemar granite. Is this granite tested before it is installed in homes??? What do you know about their Canelle????
It is Innovative/Stonemark Essential Collection color Canelle class 3.
It is Innovative/Stonemark Essential Collection color Canelle class 3.
We look at this controversy as another ploy by quartz manufacturers (Cambria and Silestone)to utilize the “all powerful media”, to persuade consumers through fear or any other available means to purchase quartz for countertops.
one would have to wonder if they have considered that once they put granite fabricators out of business, it may be tough to get their quartz tops made. Last I heard, the raw materials found in engineered stone are quartz (granite), silica and an oil based resin. One wonders, if these tops also pose radon risks?
Radon is in the ground and all around us. If you have well water, it may very well contain radon. Radon is also known to dissapate very quickly in a well ventilated space. So, I think the key is to use common sense. There may be very few granite types that emit detectable levels. We need to define them and simply not have them available, thereby eliminating the risk.
It is so easy to jump on the hysteria band wagon without verified information. Big Business and Politics….dirty business.
We look at this controversy as another ploy by quartz manufacturers (Cambria and Silestone)to utilize the “all powerful media”, to persuade consumers through fear or any other available means to purchase quartz for countertops.
one would have to wonder if they have considered that once they put granite fabricators out of business, it may be tough to get their quartz tops made. Last I heard, the raw materials found in engineered stone are quartz (granite), silica and an oil based resin. One wonders, if these tops also pose radon risks?
Radon is in the ground and all around us. If you have well water, it may very well contain radon. Radon is also known to dissapate very quickly in a well ventilated space. So, I think the key is to use common sense. There may be very few granite types that emit detectable levels. We need to define them and simply not have them available, thereby eliminating the risk.
It is so easy to jump on the hysteria band wagon without verified information. Big Business and Politics….dirty business.
We look at this controversy as another ploy by quartz manufacturers (Cambria and Silestone)to utilize the “all powerful media”, to persuade consumers through fear or any other available means to purchase quartz for countertops.
one would have to wonder if they have considered that once they put granite fabricators out of business, it may be tough to get their quartz tops made. Last I heard, the raw materials found in engineered stone are quartz (granite), silica and an oil based resin. One wonders, if these tops also pose radon risks?
Radon is in the ground and all around us. If you have well water, it may very well contain radon. Radon is also known to dissapate very quickly in a well ventilated space. So, I think the key is to use common sense. There may be very few granite types that emit detectable levels. We need to define them and simply not have them available, thereby eliminating the risk.
It is so easy to jump on the hysteria band wagon without verified information. Big Business and Politics….dirty business.
Anyone with half a brain can SO easily see that the current radon/uranium-from-granite “scare” is exactly that. Simply a scare tactic promulgated by competing countertop manufacturers out to snag more market-share from the Natural Stone industry. These manufacturers funded the “not-for-profit” BuildClean group. Follow the money. They’d call it a ‘business technique’, causing needless concern, then supplying the solution (THEIR product, which is called Engineered Stone or Quartz surfaces. Or their own “safe” granite lines…. which are different than existing granite lines HOW? Not by any actual scientific testing-methods, but rather by junk-science that shows oly their desired results.) This may be an acceptable business tactic in other countries, but I personally feel that its despicable to raise alarmist (yes, ALARMIST) worrying in order to push your own product. How about a summary of all the petrochemical energy consumption (with corresponding air-emissions), synthetic chemical substances, additives, stabilizers, etc that go into the manufacture of BuildClean’s sponsors’ products???
If you have granite countertops in your home, you have a LOT more to worry about as a health-risk by crossing the street, driving a car, or drinking city water than your granite. Thank the American Media for yet another round of super-hyped needless concern.
Anyone with half a brain can SO easily see that the current radon/uranium-from-granite “scare” is exactly that. Simply a scare tactic promulgated by competing countertop manufacturers out to snag more market-share from the Natural Stone industry. These manufacturers funded the “not-for-profit” BuildClean group. Follow the money. They’d call it a ‘business technique’, causing needless concern, then supplying the solution (THEIR product, which is called Engineered Stone or Quartz surfaces. Or their own “safe” granite lines…. which are different than existing granite lines HOW? Not by any actual scientific testing-methods, but rather by junk-science that shows oly their desired results.) This may be an acceptable business tactic in other countries, but I personally feel that its despicable to raise alarmist (yes, ALARMIST) worrying in order to push your own product. How about a summary of all the petrochemical energy consumption (with corresponding air-emissions), synthetic chemical substances, additives, stabilizers, etc that go into the manufacture of BuildClean’s sponsors’ products???
If you have granite countertops in your home, you have a LOT more to worry about as a health-risk by crossing the street, driving a car, or drinking city water than your granite. Thank the American Media for yet another round of super-hyped needless concern.
Anyone with half a brain can SO easily see that the current radon/uranium-from-granite “scare” is exactly that. Simply a scare tactic promulgated by competing countertop manufacturers out to snag more market-share from the Natural Stone industry. These manufacturers funded the “not-for-profit” BuildClean group. Follow the money. They’d call it a ‘business technique’, causing needless concern, then supplying the solution (THEIR product, which is called Engineered Stone or Quartz surfaces. Or their own “safe” granite lines…. which are different than existing granite lines HOW? Not by any actual scientific testing-methods, but rather by junk-science that shows oly their desired results.) This may be an acceptable business tactic in other countries, but I personally feel that its despicable to raise alarmist (yes, ALARMIST) worrying in order to push your own product. How about a summary of all the petrochemical energy consumption (with corresponding air-emissions), synthetic chemical substances, additives, stabilizers, etc that go into the manufacture of BuildClean’s sponsors’ products???
If you have granite countertops in your home, you have a LOT more to worry about as a health-risk by crossing the street, driving a car, or drinking city water than your granite. Thank the American Media for yet another round of super-hyped needless concern.
EPA should have told consumers about this risk. We import granite w/radon and some very high levels. We are retired, living in our home for over 30 years, now 5 months ago purchased granite countertop in kitchen (crema bordeaux). I researched for two years and knew nothing about radon UNTIL about 2 weeks ago. What a travesty, the US really cares about their citizens. Will have checked by expert – probably will have to have removed. There are enough problems in the environment – now we import them into our country.
EPA should have told consumers about this risk. We import granite w/radon and some very high levels. We are retired, living in our home for over 30 years, now 5 months ago purchased granite countertop in kitchen (crema bordeaux). I researched for two years and knew nothing about radon UNTIL about 2 weeks ago. What a travesty, the US really cares about their citizens. Will have checked by expert – probably will have to have removed. There are enough problems in the environment – now we import them into our country.
EPA should have told consumers about this risk. We import granite w/radon and some very high levels. We are retired, living in our home for over 30 years, now 5 months ago purchased granite countertop in kitchen (crema bordeaux). I researched for two years and knew nothing about radon UNTIL about 2 weeks ago. What a travesty, the US really cares about their citizens. Will have checked by expert – probably will have to have removed. There are enough problems in the environment – now we import them into our country.
Before you folks go off worried that you’ve just spent thousands of dollars to give yourself cancer, please read the following forum thread, paying particular attention to posts by a gentleman by the name of Caoimhín P. Connell. He’s a professional that deals with these kinds of problems and he’s done a good job of putting all that scientific mumbo jumbo into understandable language. He also explains that while there IS a grain of truth to this, it’s mostly hogwash.
http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/building-interior-home-inspection-commercial-inspection/7515-stone-countertops-radon.html
Before you folks go off worried that you’ve just spent thousands of dollars to give yourself cancer, please read the following forum thread, paying particular attention to posts by a gentleman by the name of Caoimhín P. Connell. He’s a professional that deals with these kinds of problems and he’s done a good job of putting all that scientific mumbo jumbo into understandable language. He also explains that while there IS a grain of truth to this, it’s mostly hogwash.
http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/building-interior-home-inspection-commercial-inspection/7515-stone-countertops-radon.html
Before you folks go off worried that you’ve just spent thousands of dollars to give yourself cancer, please read the following forum thread, paying particular attention to posts by a gentleman by the name of Caoimhín P. Connell. He’s a professional that deals with these kinds of problems and he’s done a good job of putting all that scientific mumbo jumbo into understandable language. He also explains that while there IS a grain of truth to this, it’s mostly hogwash.
http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/building-interior-home-inspection-commercial-inspection/7515-stone-countertops-radon.html
You mean a study from the EPA like this :
“Radon is a naturally occurring radioactive gas produced by the breakdown of uranium in soil, rock, and water. Air pressure inside your home is usually lower than pressure in the soil around your home’s foundation. Because of this difference in pressure, your house acts like a vacuum, drawing radon in through foundation cracks and other openings. Radon may also be present in well water and can be released into the air in your home when water is used for showering and other household uses. In most cases, radon entering the home through water is a small risk compared with radon entering your home from the soil. In a small number of homes, the building materials (e.g., granite and certain concrete products) can give off radon, although building materials rarely cause radon problems by themselves. In the United States, radon gas in soils is the principal source of elevated radon levels in homes.”
http://www.epa.gov/radon/
Way to go chicken little.
You mean a study from the EPA like this :
“Radon is a naturally occurring radioactive gas produced by the breakdown of uranium in soil, rock, and water. Air pressure inside your home is usually lower than pressure in the soil around your home’s foundation. Because of this difference in pressure, your house acts like a vacuum, drawing radon in through foundation cracks and other openings. Radon may also be present in well water and can be released into the air in your home when water is used for showering and other household uses. In most cases, radon entering the home through water is a small risk compared with radon entering your home from the soil. In a small number of homes, the building materials (e.g., granite and certain concrete products) can give off radon, although building materials rarely cause radon problems by themselves. In the United States, radon gas in soils is the principal source of elevated radon levels in homes.”
http://www.epa.gov/radon/
Way to go chicken little.
You mean a study from the EPA like this :
“Radon is a naturally occurring radioactive gas produced by the breakdown of uranium in soil, rock, and water. Air pressure inside your home is usually lower than pressure in the soil around your home’s foundation. Because of this difference in pressure, your house acts like a vacuum, drawing radon in through foundation cracks and other openings. Radon may also be present in well water and can be released into the air in your home when water is used for showering and other household uses. In most cases, radon entering the home through water is a small risk compared with radon entering your home from the soil. In a small number of homes, the building materials (e.g., granite and certain concrete products) can give off radon, although building materials rarely cause radon problems by themselves. In the United States, radon gas in soils is the principal source of elevated radon levels in homes.”
http://www.epa.gov/radon/
Way to go chicken little.
Thank you for your comment, Steve. The intention of this thread was to provide a middle viewpoint between the alarmists and the deniers with the goal of holding a rational debate about this potential health risk. Thank you for the quote. Though it’s not from the EPA, it does concede that granite is a potential source, though small, of radon in houses. What needs to be determined is what percentage of granite contains radon or radiation. Is it 3%, as Dr. Llope’s initial findings suggest? I know he would be uncomfortable projecting statistics based on those findings, so for argument’s sake let’s say the danger is 1%. Sounds insignificant, right? How many houses in the country contain granite? One percent of a million homes is ten thousand. Now one percent doesn’t seem so small. Though the radon risks can be mitigated through increased ventilation, radiation cannot.
The sky’s not falling – just a very small percentage of it. If it was the sky right over your head, wouldn’t you want to be warned?
Thank you for your comment, Steve. The intention of this thread was to provide a middle viewpoint between the alarmists and the deniers with the goal of holding a rational debate about this potential health risk. Thank you for the quote. Though it’s not from the EPA, it does concede that granite is a potential source, though small, of radon in houses. What needs to be determined is what percentage of granite contains radon or radiation. Is it 3%, as Dr. Llope’s initial findings suggest? I know he would be uncomfortable projecting statistics based on those findings, so for argument’s sake let’s say the danger is 1%. Sounds insignificant, right? How many houses in the country contain granite? One percent of a million homes is ten thousand. Now one percent doesn’t seem so small. Though the radon risks can be mitigated through increased ventilation, radiation cannot.
The sky’s not falling – just a very small percentage of it. If it was the sky right over your head, wouldn’t you want to be warned?
Thank you for your comment, Steve. The intention of this thread was to provide a middle viewpoint between the alarmists and the deniers with the goal of holding a rational debate about this potential health risk. Thank you for the quote. Though it’s not from the EPA, it does concede that granite is a potential source, though small, of radon in houses. What needs to be determined is what percentage of granite contains radon or radiation. Is it 3%, as Dr. Llope’s initial findings suggest? I know he would be uncomfortable projecting statistics based on those findings, so for argument’s sake let’s say the danger is 1%. Sounds insignificant, right? How many houses in the country contain granite? One percent of a million homes is ten thousand. Now one percent doesn’t seem so small. Though the radon risks can be mitigated through increased ventilation, radiation cannot.
The sky’s not falling – just a very small percentage of it. If it was the sky right over your head, wouldn’t you want to be warned?
HOME SAFETY SYSTEMS IS AFFILIATED AND HAS BOARD MEMBERS THAT OWN SILAS & CAMBRIA (MAN MADE SOLID SURFACE STONE USED ON COUNTER TOPS).
THIS IS A TACTIC TO INCREASE THEIR MARKET SHARE.
GRANITE HAS BEEN USED FOR CENTURYS AND IS SAFER THAN THE SOIL THAT YOUR HOUSE SITS ON AND THE WATER AND ENVIORNMENTAL RADON ALL AROUND US.
IT IS TOO BAD THAT THEY HAD TO RESORT TO THIS TO SELL THEIR PRODUCT. IT IS BECAUSE GRANITE IS SO MUCH MORE BEAUTIFUL THAN ANY THING MAN MADE!
THEY ARE JUST JEALOUS!
I LOVE MY GRANITE!
YOU WOULD NEED TO BE SEALED IN YOUR HOUSE WITH YOUR GRANITE 24/7 FOR 72 YEARS FOR IT TO BE AT A DANGEROUS LEVEL.
TESTS WERE NOT DONE THAT ALLOWED FOR DISIPATION IN TO THE AIR.
THIS IS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.