Comments on: Do-It-Yourself Power http://greenbuildingelements.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/ Reporting on Sustainably Built Environments from Bricks to Cities Fri, 03 Feb 2012 01:57:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: xây dựng, construction, paint http://greenbuildingelements.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/comment-page-1/#comment-129743 xây dựng, construction, paint Tue, 14 Jun 2011 00:36:00 +0000 http://philipproefrock.greenoptions.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/#comment-129743 thank your pager thank your pager

]]> By: Jeff McIntire-Strasburg http://greenbuildingelements.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/comment-page-1/#comment-6 Jeff McIntire-Strasburg Sun, 18 Feb 2007 19:08:24 +0000 http://philipproefrock.greenoptions.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/#comment-6 Please private message or email (jeff [at] greenoptions [dot] com) me so we can discuss getting copies of these books to Philip, who'd love to review them. You do need to be a registered user to use the PM system. Please private message or email (jeff [at] greenoptions [dot] com) me so we can discuss getting copies of these books to Philip, who’d love to review them. You do need to be a registered user to use the PM system.

]]> By: Jeff McIntire-Strasburg http://greenbuildingelements.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/comment-page-1/#comment-97466 Jeff McIntire-Strasburg Sun, 18 Feb 2007 19:08:00 +0000 http://philipproefrock.greenoptions.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/#comment-97466 Please private message or email (jeff [at] greenoptions [dot] com) me so we can discuss getting copies of these books to Philip, who'd love to review them. You do need to be a registered user to use the PM system. Please private message or email (jeff [at] greenoptions [dot] com) me so we can discuss getting copies of these books to Philip, who’d love to review them. You do need to be a registered user to use the PM system.

]]> By: Unregistered User http://greenbuildingelements.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/comment-page-1/#comment-5 Unregistered User Mon, 05 Feb 2007 20:00:31 +0000 http://philipproefrock.greenoptions.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/#comment-5 <p>Great site! I'm so happy to see such a wonderful resource available on the web!!</p><p> May I be so bold as to suggest either of our books "The Renewable Energy Handbook" or "$mart Power: An urban guide to renewable energy and efficiency" to interested readers? Both are by William Kemp and are fabulous books for anyone interested in going completely "off grid" or just incorporating energy efficiency and renewables into their urban on-grid lives. I am the publisher and live off-grid and only wish I had had these books as resources when I began my off-grid journey. Please see www.aztext.com for more information.</p> Great site! I'm so happy to see such a wonderful resource available on the web!!

May I be so bold as to suggest either of our books "The Renewable Energy Handbook" or "$mart Power: An urban guide to renewable energy and efficiency" to interested readers? Both are by William Kemp and are fabulous books for anyone interested in going completely "off grid" or just incorporating energy efficiency and renewables into their urban on-grid lives. I am the publisher and live off-grid and only wish I had had these books as resources when I began my off-grid journey. Please see http://www.aztext.com for more information.

]]> By: Unregistered User http://greenbuildingelements.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/comment-page-1/#comment-97465 Unregistered User Mon, 05 Feb 2007 20:00:00 +0000 http://philipproefrock.greenoptions.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/#comment-97465 Great site! I'm so happy to see such a wonderful resource available on the web!! May I be so bold as to suggest either of our books "The Renewable Energy Handbook" or "$mart Power: An urban guide to renewable energy and efficiency" to interested readers? Both are by William Kemp and are fabulous books for anyone interested in going completely "off grid" or just incorporating energy efficiency and renewables into their urban on-grid lives. I am the publisher and live off-grid and only wish I had had these books as resources when I began my off-grid journey. Please see www.aztext.com for more information. Great site! I'm so happy to see such a wonderful resource available on the web!! May I be so bold as to suggest either of our books "The Renewable Energy Handbook" or "$mart Power: An urban guide to renewable energy and efficiency" to interested readers? Both are by William Kemp and are fabulous books for anyone interested in going completely "off grid" or just incorporating energy efficiency and renewables into their urban on-grid lives. I am the publisher and live off-grid and only wish I had had these books as resources when I began my off-grid journey. Please see http://www.aztext.com for more information.

]]> By: Philip Proefrock http://greenbuildingelements.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/comment-page-1/#comment-4 Philip Proefrock Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:54:47 +0000 http://philipproefrock.greenoptions.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/#comment-4 <p>I completely agree with you about the complexities of the question. To be more precise, I probably should have written "This shows how only about 1/3 of the <strong>energy used for</strong> electrical production is <strong>converted into</strong> useful energy." </p><p>There's a difference between efficiencies of the grid system and efficiencies within a sustainable system, though. </p><p>The inefficiencies of the grid system (including the heat-loss inefficiencies of a power plant) are a fuel cost. 3kW+ worth of coal has to be burned in order for 1kW of electricity to reach your home. On the other hand, the inefficiencies of a local and sustainable system do not represent an ongoing cost.</p><p> </p> I completely agree with you about the complexities of the question. To be more precise, I probably should have written "This shows how only about 1/3 of the energy used for electrical production is converted into useful energy."

There's a difference between efficiencies of the grid system and efficiencies within a sustainable system, though.

The inefficiencies of the grid system (including the heat-loss inefficiencies of a power plant) are a fuel cost. 3kW+ worth of coal has to be burned in order for 1kW of electricity to reach your home. On the other hand, the inefficiencies of a local and sustainable system do not represent an ongoing cost.

 

]]> By: Philip Proefrock http://greenbuildingelements.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/comment-page-1/#comment-97464 Philip Proefrock Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:54:00 +0000 http://philipproefrock.greenoptions.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/#comment-97464 I completely agree with you about the complexities of the question. To be more precise, I probably should have written "This shows how only about 1/3 of the <strong>energy used for</strong> electrical production is <strong>converted into</strong> useful energy." There's a difference between efficiencies of the grid system and efficiencies within a sustainable system, though. The inefficiencies of the grid system (including the heat-loss inefficiencies of a power plant) are a fuel cost. 3kW+ worth of coal has to be burned in order for 1kW of electricity to reach your home. On the other hand, the inefficiencies of a local and sustainable system do not represent an ongoing cost.  I completely agree with you about the complexities of the question. To be more precise, I probably should have written "This shows how only about 1/3 of the energy used for electrical production is converted into useful energy." There's a difference between efficiencies of the grid system and efficiencies within a sustainable system, though. The inefficiencies of the grid system (including the heat-loss inefficiencies of a power plant) are a fuel cost. 3kW+ worth of coal has to be burned in order for 1kW of electricity to reach your home. On the other hand, the inefficiencies of a local and sustainable system do not represent an ongoing cost. 

]]> By: David http://greenbuildingelements.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/comment-page-1/#comment-3 David Mon, 29 Jan 2007 20:45:19 +0000 http://philipproefrock.greenoptions.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/#comment-3 <p>I would be careful about drawing conclusions from various sources of data that is in different formats. Local generation does help offset distribution/line losses (which hover around 10%, I seem to remember), but I'm pretty sure that EIA link is talking about a broader concept than that. </p><p>Out of any energy-producing resource, only a % of available energy will be converted to useful electricity. For fossil fuels (especially in the non-electrical case of transportation), there are huge losses created by the simple fact that we can't extract all of the energy of anything in a useful form (this is evident on the graph posted on Treehugger). This is why we have smokestacks, pollution, etc. This is the "waste heat" that the EIA link mentions. By comparison, solar panels do a better job, but they still only covert slightly more than 70% of what they produce to useful AC power. Here's a typical breakdown:</p><table border="0" cellpadding="4"><tbody><tr><td>PV Energy delivered<br />as % of manufacturers rating</td><td>85%</td></tr> <tr><td>Wiring & power point tracking losses</td><td>7% (93% delivered)</td></tr> <tr><td>Inverter Efficiency</td><td>90%</td></tr> <tr><td><u>Total Energy Delivered</u></td><td><u>85% x 93% x 90% = 71%</u></td></tr></tbody></table><p>Overall, your point is definitely valid, but the complexities of the units involved in energy analysis can be quite confusing. Green Options is part of the movement to bring these issues into the mainstream and make them more digestible for the average reader. Thanks for helping to start that conversation. </p> I would be careful about drawing conclusions from various sources of data that is in different formats. Local generation does help offset distribution/line losses (which hover around 10%, I seem to remember), but I'm pretty sure that EIA link is talking about a broader concept than that.

Out of any energy-producing resource, only a % of available energy will be converted to useful electricity. For fossil fuels (especially in the non-electrical case of transportation), there are huge losses created by the simple fact that we can't extract all of the energy of anything in a useful form (this is evident on the graph posted on Treehugger). This is why we have smokestacks, pollution, etc. This is the "waste heat" that the EIA link mentions. By comparison, solar panels do a better job, but they still only covert slightly more than 70% of what they produce to useful AC power. Here's a typical breakdown:

PV Energy delivered
as % of manufacturers rating		 85%
Wiring & power point tracking losses 7% (93% delivered)
Inverter Efficiency 90%
Total Energy Delivered 85% x 93% x 90% = 71%

Overall, your point is definitely valid, but the complexities of the units involved in energy analysis can be quite confusing. Green Options is part of the movement to bring these issues into the mainstream and make them more digestible for the average reader. Thanks for helping to start that conversation.

]]> By: David http://greenbuildingelements.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/comment-page-1/#comment-97463 David Mon, 29 Jan 2007 20:45:00 +0000 http://philipproefrock.greenoptions.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/#comment-97463 I would be careful about drawing conclusions from various sources of data that is in different formats. Local generation does help offset distribution/line losses (which hover around 10%, I seem to remember), but I'm pretty sure that EIA link is talking about a broader concept than that. Out of any energy-producing resource, only a % of available energy will be converted to useful electricity. For fossil fuels (especially in the non-electrical case of transportation), there are huge losses created by the simple fact that we can't extract all of the energy of anything in a useful form (this is evident on the graph posted on Treehugger). This is why we have smokestacks, pollution, etc. This is the "waste heat" that the EIA link mentions. By comparison, solar panels do a better job, but they still only covert slightly more than 70% of what they produce to useful AC power. Here's a typical breakdown:PV Energy deliveredas % of manufacturers rating85% Wiring & power point tracking losses7% (93% delivered) Inverter Efficiency90% Total Energy Delivered85% x 93% x 90% = 71%Overall, your point is definitely valid, but the complexities of the units involved in energy analysis can be quite confusing. Green Options is part of the movement to bring these issues into the mainstream and make them more digestible for the average reader. Thanks for helping to start that conversation. I would be careful about drawing conclusions from various sources of data that is in different formats. Local generation does help offset distribution/line losses (which hover around 10%, I seem to remember), but I'm pretty sure that EIA link is talking about a broader concept than that. Out of any energy-producing resource, only a % of available energy will be converted to useful electricity. For fossil fuels (especially in the non-electrical case of transportation), there are huge losses created by the simple fact that we can't extract all of the energy of anything in a useful form (this is evident on the graph posted on Treehugger). This is why we have smokestacks, pollution, etc. This is the "waste heat" that the EIA link mentions. By comparison, solar panels do a better job, but they still only covert slightly more than 70% of what they produce to useful AC power. Here's a typical breakdown:PV Energy deliveredas % of manufacturers rating85% Wiring & power point tracking losses7% (93% delivered) Inverter Efficiency90% Total Energy Delivered85% x 93% x 90% = 71%Overall, your point is definitely valid, but the complexities of the units involved in energy analysis can be quite confusing. Green Options is part of the movement to bring these issues into the mainstream and make them more digestible for the average reader. Thanks for helping to start that conversation.

]]> By: Philip Proefrock http://greenbuildingelements.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/comment-page-1/#comment-2 Philip Proefrock Mon, 29 Jan 2007 18:35:30 +0000 http://philipproefrock.greenoptions.com/2007/01/29/do-it-yourself-power/#comment-2 <p>An article at TreeHugger today also contained the energy chart that Dave used in his presentation:</p><p>http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/01/efficiency_cruc.php</p><p>This shows how only about 1/3 of the electrical production is useful energy.</p> An article at TreeHugger today also contained the energy chart that Dave used in his presentation:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/01/efficiency_cruc.php

This shows how only about 1/3 of the electrical production is useful energy.

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